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27 May 2020 17:26:46
Hey Ed2 just wanted to know what's the latest if any in regards to United's pursuit of Jude Bellingham.

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed002's Note - As far as I know the situation remains with Jude Bellingham that Birmingham want more than £30M for the kid and know that there are clubs from across Europe interested in him, including clubs who can afford to take the risks and clubs who will give him a chance of first team football before the likes of Manchester United (who are very keen). Manchester United have done nothing to try and complete the transfer but propose a low fee and bonuses over a number of years but the player wants a road map which the club can't offer. Dortmund have continued discussions and have thought for a while that they will reach a formal agreement.}


1.) 27 May 2020 21:43:09
Amateurs at it again?


2.) 28 May 2020 08:35:01
peter?

amateurs risking offloading more than 30 million for a 16 year old child? who is no where near the level for the first team?


3.) 28 May 2020 10:33:59
I have said previously that although clearly a very talented young player I struggle to see how he fits in to a United first team.

He is too young to be loaned out, while at the same time we have Matic, Fred, McTominay, Bruno and Pogba currently as first team midfielders. While we are looking at players such as Saul if Pogba leaves. Which means at best Bellingham would be one of 6 players fighting it out for one of the three staring midfield positions. While doing so against vastly more experienced players.

A move to United will either result in time on the bench in the first team or playing Under 23's. Neither of which are better than playing every week in the Championship with Birmingham.

I think Bellingham is at a vital moment in his young career, look at Odegaard, moving to Real Madrid at 16 years old. He is only just looking like getting his career back on track now at 22, SIX years after making the move.

If he moves to a club too far up the football ladder he risks spending most of his time on the bench and stagnating. He needs game time, either continuing at the level he is at or maybe at a higher level. I think the key thing is for him to realise he doesn't have to rush. Which is probably the hardest thing to appreciate at 16 years old. He needs to believe in himself and appreciate that if he is good enough then opportunities to join the biggest clubs will always be open to him. But to be a great player you need to be playing, every week.

Look at Angel Gomes, one of the most gifted players from our academy, yet Bellingham three years his junior is rated just as highly if not a little higher based off nothing more than playing every week albeit at a lower level.

My advice to all young players is go where you will play, you learn between 20-30% of your footballing knowledge through training, the rest can only be learned and developed through playing actual matches.

Look at our own academy this season, Williams didn't make the pre-season tour squad, yet due to actually playing games this season (due to injuries) he has managed to jump ahead of players such as Garner, Gomes and Laird who were all rated higher than him this time last year.

Personally I think Bellingham is best off signing a professional contract with Birmingham, play there next season then move to a mid-tier sized club the following summer, stay there for a couple of years then move to a top level club still only aged 19/ 20 years old, but in a position to fight for a first team spot every week.

Playing for the biggest clubs is an end goal, at 16 the only goal you should be considering is how to develop yourself.


4.) 28 May 2020 12:07:30
My point wasn’t about wether the player should be signed or not. Wasn’t even to do with the amount of money being mentioned.
United clearly want the player As they are offering instalments but just fly by the seat of their pants when it comes to negotiating. Why would you not supply a road map for a young player and why would the player even need to ask for this.

Kid should go to Dortmund.


5.) 28 May 2020 12:08:18
Agree Shappy that young players only develop through playing. But if you’re good enough you’ll come through to the first team. In time. Look at Giggs and Rooney, Owen as examples. Is Bellingham in that tier though? Time will tell. Best of both worlds for United is to secure his transfer now but loan back for 2 seasons. Pogba definitely gone by then though hopefully replaced by Saul. Matic likely to leave then also.


6.) 28 May 2020 12:31:48
Halesini, He can't be loaned back until he is at least 18 years old. The rules do not allow the loan of players under the age of 18.

So if we sign him the only options are to play him in the first team, or in the Under 23's. As I have said there are significant hurdles for him to play in the first team and the Under 23's is a much lower standard than he is playing currently.

This was the issue Real Madrid had with Odegaard. They signed him but he couldn't get enough game time in the first team, but at least they could play him for the B side in the second division. Although ultimately he stagnated, he was then loaned out to three clubs I think since he turned 18 and it is only this year at the age of 22 that he has managed to kick on.

Bellingham could end up in a potentially a worse situation at United as if he doesn't play in the first team then the Under 23's is a much lower level than that the Real Madrid B team play.

I think the other examples you mention such as Giggs, Rooney and Owen all managed it with significantly less competition for places. With only one or two players in the first team fighting them for a first team spot. Bellingham would have 5 maybe 6 players he would be competing with for a first team spot.

Now although he has been impressive in the Championship, the EPL is a step up and he is very young. I would probably say he isn't ready to play most weeks for a side near the top of the EPL. The lad needs to learn to walk before he can run.


7.) 28 May 2020 13:21:49
you said amateurs at it again? in reply to the ed saying we put a low offer with addons and bonuses.


is that not realistic for a player who is 16.


not having a go just my opinion on the post.


8.) 28 May 2020 13:58:12
He doesn't need to be loaned back Shappy, we could just arrange the transfer date to be next season.

This signing isn't about plugging a hole in the squad now. It is the "biggest" club in England signing the most talented kid in England. Spend 30 million now so you don't have to spend 100 million in 3 years.

Not many are batting an eyelid at spending £150 million on Sancho. This is more than just "where does the kid play". We have rolled out the red carpet for him and his family. Got Sir Alex to show him around Carrington. Activtely trying to sign an English kid and he will turn us down to play in Germany.

This is a signing that a proactive club makes. We have been offering low balling bids that will get us nowhere. We're the equalivant of a poser that goes to the gym just to take selfies and not do the hard work. Then to keep up we take some steroids (Sanchez), short term effects look great but it will kill us in the long run.


9.) 28 May 2020 14:50:22
Mumbles, I think the issue stems from the fact that currently Bellingham hasn't signed a professional deal with Birmingham as he isn't yet old enough. So Birmingham cannot "sell" him currently. If he doesn't sign a professional deal with Birmingham then he could in theory sign for any club for just a compensation fee (which if pushed to tribunal would likely be a few million at most.

However, my understanding is the Bellingham family have agreed to sign pro-deal so that Birmingham can receive a large fee for him.

So clubs are reluctant to just agree to a 30m deal or whatever Birmingham are asking for, given that in theory he could be available for a tenth of that. While I don't think there is a rule that would allow you to sign a player now, but not register him at your club for 18 months. The closest you might get is him signing a permanent deal with Birmingham and then United agreeing to sign him for a fixed fee at the end of next season. However, I have no idea how legal that sort of arrangement would be, or why Birmingham would agree to it as depending on the market and how he develops over next season he could be worth significantly more.

While it's fair to say that in three years time he could be worth significantly more, given the current situation and the likely knock on effects in terms of transfer fees I think its right that clubs don't just jump and and throw 30m around for a 16 year old like its nothing. Likewise clubs could have spent 30m or 40m on a 17 year old Januzaj, or Macheda players who at 17/ 18 years old looked destined to become top players. Yet in hindsight that would have been an awful investment.
Barcelona thought 140m for Dembele would be a sound investment, thinking the market would only continue to grow. Yet, the kid has struggled for fitness and form and the market has dropped significantly.

We signed Nick Powell as a future England star midfielder from the Championship.

Bellingham looks a future great player, but he is 16 years old and a lot can happen between now and when he should be entering his peak years in TEN years time. He could suffer serious injury, he could go off the rails with a huge contract giving him too much too soon, or he could lose focus on football and not develop as many think he will.

Freddy Adu was going to be the next Ronaldo (Brazilian), yet he made very few top flight appearances in Europe.

The club are trying to sign the lad, and they have done several things in order to tempt him. I've stated the issues with providing a 16 year old with a "road map" into the first team. The club can't loan him out, and they certainly can't guarantee him any first team football beyond him being part of the squad and competing for a first team place.

As for the club making "proactive" signings, last summer we signed AWB, James and Maguire. Two are good young prospects who have made an impact while the eldest player signed is now our club captain. We then signed a 25 year old Bruno in January a player who in his few appearances looks like he could arguably be our best player (albeit only on a small sample size) . Ighalo might fit into your analogy of short term fixes, yet the idea of not signing a long term prospect in striker position could be linked to the club having one eye on the development of one of our own super talented young players in Mason Greenwood.


10.) 28 May 2020 15:22:07
Mumbles like I’ve already said. My point was the fact we refused to give a young player a road map. That’s what I find amateurish. If you read again you will see I make that very clear.


11.) 28 May 2020 15:34:09
We could sign Bellingham and leave him at Birmingham for a season. It wouldn't be a loan, it would be agreeing a transfer date in the future.

Your hypothetical scenarios could work for any transfer. The fact is that we are losing out on a young English target to Dortmund.

As the biggest club in England, we should not be losing out on the most promising 16 year old in the country, who we are actively trying to buy.


12.) 28 May 2020 15:38:43
Peter, what sort of a "road map" do you think the club should be giving him?

We can't loan him out, so his options are under 23's or the first team.

Are you suggesting that our club with 142 years worth of history, a club that has had some of the greatest players ever grace the turf of Old Trafford should be guaranteeing a 16 year old a place in the staring 11 ahead of Pogba, Bruno, Fred, Matic and McTominay?

You say road map like its an obvious and clear thing. What sort of guarantees should the club be giving him.

For me regardless of who you are or what you have achieved you still need to earn your starting spot.

Reports in the press suggest the club have said that if signed Bellingham has been told he will be part of the first team squad.

That in my opinion is about as far as the club can go. He might get more chances at other clubs, and if playing every week is what is important to him then good on him and he will probably have to go elsewhere to get that, he certainly will if he wants guarantees of game time.


13.) 28 May 2020 17:45:04
Shappy
The lad shouldn't get any guarantees at all with first team exactly the same as gomes if u get the chance you take it. But i would love the club to grab a young potentially good player and try to develop him inhouse. We could always make it a future transfer for next summer with then loans the season after. The club has risked a ton lately on the likes of alexis giving ddg a mass deal when we had henderson. Risking on a young lad might be a change of pace. 2-3 seasons we don't know who will be in midfield n he could or could not slot straight in but if he wants it enough I've always thought were a team that can develop some great talents. i'd love to go back to that rather than double or tripple every players wage we want to sign n then they come in and coast.


14.) 28 May 2020 17:50:17
Mumbles, what I'm saying is there is no precedent for a club agreeing the transfer of a player, but not signing them for over a year so they could stay at their current club. Let alone the issues regarding his age.

We would be in New territory and I'm not sure whether that would be within the laws of the game.

While I'm not sure what Birmingham stand to gain from agreeing to sell a player in a year's time for a fixed fee. What sort of legal protections does either side have in case of a career ending injury?

Would it still be in there best interests to play him?

I would imagine the reality is we sign him this summer or we don't. If we do then he has to stay with us until he is at least 18. Which means January 2022 is the earliest he could leave on loan.


15.) 28 May 2020 19:08:18
Reason to wait and see on Bellingham
Garner
Levitt
Gomes
Hannibal

Granted we are yet to see the role these guys and Jude will play long term and is why along with loan reason I’d wait and see.

(FM suggestion: agreed purchase date as end of next season + loan back, keeps him at Brum till 22.)

{Ed002's Note - I am not sure Dortmund will be looking to sell him next season.}


16.) 28 May 2020 22:39:30
Ed002, I'm pretty sure the answer will be no. But is it possible for a club to agree a deal to sign a player over a year in advance?

I've never heard of it, but it seems like it's something that you can do on FM, or I'm not sure where the idea is coming from.

So could United agree to sign Bellingham in the summer of 2021? And how legally binding would that be?

{Ed002's Note - Sure. Keita to Liverpool is an example. RvN to MU another. Contracts can be written and signed but no such proposal is being made.}


 

 

 

St.Lucia Red Devil's banter posts with other poster's replies to St.Lucia Red Devil's banter posts

 

31 May 2020 16:24:24
Ed02 any further info you can provide based on the revelation made by Saul?

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed002's Note - I don’t know what he has said. Sorry.}


1.) 31 May 2020 22:09:11
He has said he will be announcing a new club in 3 days on his official twitter account.


2.) 01 Jun 2020 15:13:57
I think it's a new 6 Iron he has picked up from Bale.


 

 

18 Apr 2020 19:57:41
Have no problems with Pogba being sold. But to include players that Real and Juve deem surplus and expect United to accept them in any deal, doesn't seem right in my book. Whose to say that the players being offered are interested in joining the club or the club are interested in them. Could be another Pogba situation all over again if the club yields.

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed002's Note - Few would want to take the step down.)


1.) 18 Apr 2020 21:59:06
Well if that's the case and how the club is viewed at the moment rightly or wrongly, its best the club just cut it's losses and accept a lower bid (which they won't) and focus on getting players who genuinely want to play for the club .


2.) 18 Apr 2020 22:22:16
Ed002, I appreciate United haven't shown a willingness to look at players being included in a deal for Pogba as yet, however, if we are to get rid this will likely have to change.

Due to this, our need for a right winger and the ludicrous cost of Sancho, do you see United opening up to the possibility of Bale being included in a deal from Real for Pogba? They obviously want rid of him, United have been linked for most of the past decade with Bale and even though it probably wouldn't be a wise decision, United aren't really known for being particularly wise in the market. I'd also imagine Bale might have some interest as I'd imagine there aren't many other leading sides looking at him for the summer?

Thanks and hope everyone is keeping safe.

{Ed002's Note - I would discount Bale.}


3.) 19 Apr 2020 14:29:31
Bale? why would you want Bale at united? Bale is a no no in my eyes and Utd should forget pursuing players that don't want to be here, we need to focus more on players with Fernandes attitude towards the club, I hope the club gets rid of pogba and Matic and bring in young new exciting players instead of all these superstars that won't put in 100% in the games. A right winger is really needed, i think it would immediately change our game.


4.) 19 Apr 2020 23:54:01
I wouldn't say Pogba will be taking a step down going to Madrid, maybe to Juventus.


 

 

16 Apr 2020 17:10:19
Just wanted ................

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed002's Note - You need to take this to the Newcastle page.}


 

 

27 Feb 2020 01:15:45
This site is a little to quiet for my liking. God forbid we don't lose on Thursday because it's going to be pandemonium in here.

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed047's Note - no ones really sure after smashing the mighty Watford whether it’s another false dawn or not mate so everyone’s a little apprehensive.


1.) 27 Feb 2020 05:07:03
Hey Ed047. Bruno's arrival has lifted the squad.
Let's see if we can continue this mini momentum.

{Ed047's Note - yes mate, that’s the important thing, stop the one step forward one step back.


2.) 27 Feb 2020 06:33:51
Big week ahead with el pl and fa cup matches.
Win the 3 of them and things are looking up. Slip up and it knocks us sideways again.
I think everybody is hoping we can sustain a run of good form but are s little cautious.


3.) 27 Feb 2020 07:40:40
Sounds like you want us to lose so you can be proven right when people have a reaction to it, best I can tell there was a positive reaction on here, especially towards Bruno, after Watford.


4.) 27 Feb 2020 07:47:35
ED047,

OGS needs to play his best team, when he can, I thought it was a . mistake not to play Bruno and fred from the beginning against brugge last week.

{Ed047's Note - I think at this stage of the season you’re right MH, it’s the time when everything’s up for grabs.

Play your best 11 with minimal changes. In his defence Bruno has only just arrived and just getting used to everything so that might have been a factor.

Yourselves, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs look to be making the biggest hash of things so far.

Leicester and Sheffield are difficult to know how they’ll finish the season.

The rest i mentioned, excluding Arsenal, are close enough to make the most of anyone above or around slipping up.


5.) 27 Feb 2020 08:00:22
I think TRD is right. Its crunch time, the next 4 league games will pretty much decide if we can qualify for ECL or not. Bring it on!


6.) 27 Feb 2020 08:25:59
I think Everton away is going to be the toughest test. If we can get a result there, then there's no reason why we can't beat City, Sheffield United and Spurs.
I expect a good showing tonight, and let's get the club buzzing by moving to the next round.


7.) 27 Feb 2020 08:53:56
ED047,

Playing our best available team. week in a d out might just see United get into CL football.

United have a few bug games coming up. Chelsea and Spurs have injury problems. Man City will suffer if laporte is out for awhile.

Playing your strongest team a d building up a winning streak will build up confidence.

It's like were playing snakes and ladders, go forwards, then at times we really drop back.

{Ed047's Note - it might mate and you’ve got nothing to lose by doing it


 

 

02 Feb 2020 12:44:25
People could write to the club to express their grievances, flood them with letters or emails (that's what I do). Maybe that might affect the change that people so desperately want.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

 

St.Lucia Red Devil's rumour replies

 

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27 May 2020 11:47:52
Yeah. Based on what I've seen on the Liverpool page, seems his head has been turned after being tapped up/ illegally approached by Klopp.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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13 May 2020 04:05:58
All the best to him. Although I don't see him getting much game time at Chelsea either. They have twice the amount of midfielders than we do all around his age looking to break into the first team.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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04 May 2020 13:06:19
I have no grievance with Pogba being sold. I would rather the club take a loss financially (lower fee) than accept players deemed not good enough from the clubs interested in him. I know it won't be possible, but the Club should be in a position to pick which player/ players that they want instead of having players they have no interest in forced (for lack of a better word) upon them. It's better to get players who genuinely want to play for the club and improve it than players who view us a step down because of our current predicament.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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28 Mar 2020 13:17:54
Ed 002. Based on the response given are Man United interested in any players from Real Madrid which will make the possibility of the deal easier or is it a case of Real Madrid offering players they want rid of and which Man United have no interest in at all.

St.Lucia Red Devil

{Ed002's Note - Manchester United have not shown any interest in any Real Madrid players since they flirted with the likes of Ivan Rakitic, Kroos and Bale.}


 

 

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19 Jan 2020 17:20:57
Or maybe it does.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

 

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30 May 2020 19:29:42
Give it a rest already. If and when Ole is sacked and posters get their preferred choice of manager, I hope he is scrutinized the same way as Ole when results don't go his way, especially if he has the experience and CV which Ole is constantly bashed for not having.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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29 May 2020 15:59:06
No mumbles he won't be sacked.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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25 May 2020 12:25:04
Let them moan.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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11 May 2020 11:57:40
Nope.

St.Lucia Red Devil

 

 

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07 May 2020 16:51:39
@ Salford7. Gone are the days where we would compete with the likes of Juve, Real, Barcelona etc for players because according to Ed02 this current version of Man United is viewed as a step down by the top players currently. The only reason they would join is because of wages and after 2 seasons will be wanting to leave in search of a new challenge.

St.Lucia Red Devil