Manchester United Banter 3

21 Apr 2026 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

20 Apr 2026 19:09:19
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

20 Apr 2026 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Greenaway has posted a new article entitled, Chelsea's Bigger Problem Behind the Scenes

19 Apr 2026 23:59:15
Ollie Watkins would be a good striker for us. Always puts a shift in. Usually scores a decent amount of goals each season and would not cost a fortune.

20 Apr 2026 07:31:04
Amorim wanted him.....

20 Apr 2026 11:15:29
It's an interesting conundrum. I think Watkins would have scored more goals than Sesko this year, but he would only have been a short-term solution. Sesko has been an impact sub who hasn't found his groove yet, but he clearly has huge potential.

20 Apr 2026 14:25:51
Before Villa's game yesterday, Watkins had a season total of 8 league goals. Sesko has 9 league goals. On the basis of him having one good game and scoring a hat trick, should we go and spend many millions on him? Villa would ask for a fortune. They did last summer.



This would seem to scream Match of the Day fever. He would be far too expensive, and is he really the right age profile for the club? Also, some think his performance levels have started to decline.

Should we buy him? Just my view, but no, no, indeed thrice no.

20 Apr 2026 16:18:18
I agree with IWOTB.

20 Apr 2026 16:33:45
Lol, now I just feel silly.

20 Apr 2026 17:24:16
It's only when you look at the details you see that perception is often miles off reality.
People are entitled to their perception, thoughts and ideas, but lots of the time the detail and facts show that the perception some have flies in the face of reality.
If you have any opinion the earth is flat, then that's your opinion, but the facts show something very different.
Who knows, AJH, Watkins might have scored more playing for United than he did for Villa this season, but we simply don't know that.


One thing is for sure, he is a better cf than Mbeumo is and he has been playing there recently out of position.
I think there are very few sure things when you sign anybody. Even if we sign Haaland, for example, there is no guarantee he would do as well for United as he has for City.
Picking someone like Watkins up on a free would be good business imo, but I don't think they will pay a significant fee for him nor do I think they should.

20 Apr 2026 18:58:53
If he was available for say £20m, it's a no brainer for me. This is not MOTD fever. He has been a consistent scorer of goals, and in a Villa team which, until the present manager came, was not a very good team. He works hard. Stretches defences and would be a good figure for Sesko and other younger strikers to learn from.

20 Apr 2026 22:11:06
Ken, clearly there are no guarantees that any player will perform at a predetermined level when they move clubs. There will always be an element of lottery about it.

Decisions about buying or selling a player are made by people based upon what the player is actually doing. You cannot second guess what may or may not happen, so you cannot base decisions on imponderables.

Watkins has previously performed at a high level, but this season not quite so. Indeed, seemingly Villa are looking to sell him this summer and are looking for between £30-£40m. I would certainly prefer this amount of money to be invested elsewhere.

To support the assertion his performances have not been quite as good, his 11 goals this season have taken 2472 minutes playing time.

Take away yesterday, and his stats would be 8 goals, each taking 297 minutes to score. Even with yesterday, it is a goal every 224 minutes.

If you look at Sesko, in his first season in a new league he has by no means been playing regularly; in fact, he has played 1502 minutes, but he has scored 9 goals, thus one every 166 minutes. Clearly superior to Watkins, I fully expect these figures to improve next season with improved playing time.

I still think I would prefer other options to Watkins, although if it had been a few years ago it may well have been different, and the hope of getting him on a free transfer will not happen.

21 Apr 2026 00:57:53
So you and I agree on Watkins iwotb. Please read my post. He would be a good free, but I would not like us to invest in any significant fee. i'm not hoping to sign him on a free but it would be a nice bit of experience to add to support sesko if it were the case. He has a good contract so if he moves they will get decent money probably more than we will get for rashford.
Where i disagree is that players are bought solely on what they are doing.
If that was the case clubs wouldn't be buying young players like yoro or heaven. They are bought for their potential not on what they are doing more a case of what they might be able to do.
Players doing poorly at a club will find a move and the buying clubs are hopeful that they will play better and return to form at their club.
So when someone buys garnacho and they will at some point. They will not be buying him for what he is doing at Chelsea.
Its not as black and white as you make out.
Ill bet sanco finds a club even weggy found one.
I agree there is research and a lot of homework done like i'm sure there was before we signed sancho di Maria sanchez but sometimes it just doesn't work for any amount of reasons.
By your reckoning nobody would try to sign a player that's flopped elsewhere.
Coaches believe they can be the manager to rekindle players, and they often do despite their manky previous stats.
So many reasons why some signings work and why ones that look nailed on don't work and fail. Miki or pogba for example.
Humans by our very nature are not robotic so often one man's rubbish is another man's gold.
Twist seskos stats a different way and they will look worse than Watkins. Read them another way and they look better.
In many ways the stats of goals per min are totally irrelevant with both players playing in different teams so they are not comparable in any way. All they tell you is how they are both doing in their respective teams it tells you very little of how they would do in the other team playing with different players doing different roles etc.

I would imagine that their would be dozens of other and much more indepth and comparable statistics and data they would be referencing in their analysis to determine any players suitability.
Even then if they get all that right, if a player doesn't settle, doesn't bond in the dressing room, if his wife doesn't settle, if his kids don't like school, and the list goes on, all the above and dozens more reasons why signings often don't replicate what they were doing elsewhere.
So imo they are very few sure things.
Ive done zero analysis on this @shappy for next school holiday. But it would be very interesting to see a list of all 50m plus signings in the epl and see them rated hit or miss. But I bet my bottom dollar there is more flops and i'd also bet every chairman and every coach and lots of stats said they would all be hits. These days there seems to be many more misses than hits despite all the analysis in the world never mind incomparable ones.
Personally I think 95%of signings are 100% gamble. I sort of consider any guess as a gamble even educated guesses. Facts and figures are used to mitigate risk but when it comes to humans then most of it goes out the window.
Would di Maria have been a success at city? Would sancez? Would gazza have a better life now if he signed for fergie. All maybe cases of wrong place at the right time. All down to how they felt.
But we do agree on not investing in a significant fee for Watkins despite him being a very good player. His goals per min don't tell how many games he has played in front of a villa midfield without their 2 1st choices its no coincidence his stats dropped without them. You gave context of sesko being young and in a new league but offered no reasoning or context as to why Watkins has had a dip in productivity. Its not the most objective insight 😂😂 I think both midfielders played yesterday and he got a couple.
Its not black and white and all about what they are doing this season a lot more is tremendous into consideration.

21 Apr 2026 07:39:28
Holy cr@p, Ken! Have you borrowed Shappy's keyboard?

{Ed025's Note - love it Keefy..

21 Apr 2026 07:55:00
Beat me to it, Keefy. 😂😂

21 Apr 2026 08:43:55
Good post, Ken. Glad that it was the abridged version. 😉 I can see Watkins being like Dwight Yorke in that he was undervalued by some Utd fans until he moved to Utd.

21 Apr 2026 10:55:14
If you watched Watkins keenly, you'd notice he misses quite a number of very good chances, last season, especially. Very decent CF though.

21 Apr 2026 12:40:34
Personally, taking into account our priorities elsewhere in the team, I would love to see us sign Lewandowski. Could work for both parties. Barca have him on massive wages and he's out of contract in the summer. He's world class, and could be fantastic to show Sesko the ropes for a year, maybe even 2.

A real Zlatan-type signing. Alternatively, I would also love Ivan Toney for the same reason. Very capable and Premiership-proven. A transition striker, whilst we sort out the left and right FBs and our midfield, would be a great move either way.

21 Apr 2026 17:50:51
I agree, CO.

19 Apr 2026 18:19:42
So var only intervenes when anyone but Arsenal and city are playing

How Var was not in the ref ear shouting possible red possible red hear or sending the ref to the camera proves its a farce.

LM pulled a bobbin from DCL hair and the ref got sent to the screen

Absolutely a joke I hope grabrielle gets the draw now.

19 Apr 2026 21:05:39
They literally make it up as they go from game to game, sometimes even in the same game. Little point trying to work them out, and they'll never admit a f up either.

20 Apr 2026 09:15:07
There was a thread the other day about the standard of refereeing and VAR, and I commented that it is really difficult to believe there isn't an agenda against United when you look at the list of incidents that have gone against United, and similar ones involving others have been dismissed or ignored. The worst thing about the incidents this weekend was that it was the same individuals involved. John Brooks was on VAR when Martinez was sent off for violent conduct, and he was VAR for the Gabriel incident.

Paul Tierney, who sent Martinez off, didn't send off Outtarra for his hair pull on Bassey.

They've also sent out a rubbish message that players won't get sent off now unless they go down, and this is the reason we see diving in the game. I honestly believe that the standard of refereeing has never been this low.

20 Apr 2026 14:26:43
Agreed. VAR has made the standard of refereeing worse. It's easier for refs to let things go because they think VAR will intervene if their mistake is obvious, but the people operating VAR are reluctant to overturn their pals' decisions unless they absolutely have to.

Is there an agenda? I want to believe that it's just incompetence, but the complete lack of consistency, and the fact that clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal are forever getting favorable decisions, while we're repeatedly getting shafted, does make me wonder sometimes.



Either way, VAR and the inconsistency of refereeing decisions in general are ruining the Premier League. Something needs to be done.

20 Apr 2026 17:28:57
I think all sides have had bad ones against them, and have got away with a few also.
I do not like VAR at all.
But, if you were to ask me, what has more of a negative impact, VAR or players behaviour/cheating, Id say player behaviour is a bigger problem than referees and VAR.

Just my opinion as a viewer.
Players attempt cheating pretty much every min of every game. Coaches are also not exempt, as they are as bad as the players most of the time.

{Ed025's Note - i agree Ken..

20 Apr 2026 19:19:24
I don't disagree with you, Ken, but players cheat because refs and VAR allow them to get away with it. All the talk today has been about if Haaland had gone down, Gabriel would have got sent off. That surely can't be right? Players don't get penalties when they stay on their feet, so they are being encouraged to go down.

There is a box managers have to stay in. Some managers are up and down the touch line all game. They step out of it, book them.

Refs, VAR, 4th officials have all the technology now to support them and prevent all this behaviour, but they fail to apply the rules or discipline. Yes, players and managers have a responsibility, but the stakes of winning now are so high, naturally, you will try to gain any advantage you can, which is where officials need to manage and control the game. If the technology wasn't there then you could accept what a difficult job they have, but it is there now.

20 Apr 2026 19:34:34
While some look at the obvious inconsistencies with VAR (sometimes even during the same game) and see that as potential corruption, I don't think it's intentional cheating or fixing of results (although you can't rule it out).

Nor do I think referees can really be that bad or stupid, to make such contrasting decisions and genuinely believe they are right on both occasions.



However, they were adamantly against VAR when it was first proposed, and they have pretty much been forced to use it against their will. So, with that in mind, do I believe the referees would, in good faith, try their best to make it work? Or would they, even subconsciously, want it to fail?

21 Apr 2026 23:50:27
Are you in a rush to be somewhere, Shaps? 😉

19 Apr 2026 16:57:18.
Gibbs White puts in another good performance today. I have mentioned him before as a good prospective signing.

Despite a late failed move to Spurs in the summer, he has not downed tools but instead driven his team forward.

19 Apr 2026 17:48:08
I like him. I think he is a good player. Comes across as a good pro, as you said. If Bruno stays, there is no room for him, really.

19 Apr 2026 18:59:47
I think you can use Gibbs White alongside Bruno.

Speaking of Bruno, so many pundits talking him up. Cherki as player of the season.

He is an excellent player, but he has been playing well only these past two or three months. Bruno has been consistently good for nearly a whole season.



Cherki is playing under one of the greatest ever managers. Bruno has been under two, learning their trade.

Cherki has top top class players around him, and Bruno is not the same quality.

Bruno has therefore been by far the most important and best player.

19 Apr 2026 14:12:54
So, 5 games to go. 10 pts clear of Chelsea. 5th place virtually guaranteed. But this is United. Remaining fixtures: Brentford H, Liverpool H, Sunderland A, Forest H, Brighton A. How many points do people think we'll get?

19 Apr 2026 14:42:00
I'd seen 10 points as achievable. We've struggled at Brighton for years, I don't think that will change, and, with Champions League sorted and the World Cup looming, that will be a damp squib.

Pick a draw from the other games, but I'd say Brentford.

20 Apr 2026 00:40:58
Brentford, Sunderland and Brighton are all going for Europe places. None of those will be easy as they will likely put up a greater fight than we expect. Of course it depends on other results.

Forest will, depending on the next couple of weeks, be desperate for points.

No easy games there and they will want to pull our pants down, and probably will.

7 points and I hope to be proven very wrong!

20 Apr 2026 08:13:44
For those long in the tooth; remember when Ron Atkinson had us 10 points clear?. 😂

20 Apr 2026 16:24:26
15/15 pts. :D

19 Apr 2026 10:30:46
Lucky, belligerent performance, scraping 3 points but I want to look at three different stories.

Garnacho.
Well done to Amorim, plus the negotiators who got £40m. He had talent, outstanding talent when younger, some carry on and become great, some just don't develop. It can go wrong, look no further than Ravel Morrison or Mason Greenwood, it happens. Amorim spotted the wrong attitude and clearly saw a fall in standards, was decisive and got rid. I watched a young Garnacho but talent alone isn't enough. His attitude stank, now it is stinking out London. How telling none of his ex teammates went to him at the end of the game, that Luke Shaw posted a picture of his pushing Garnacho on the floor. Good riddance

Cunha
Brazilian with a tough street fighter attitude. He gets it, he is all in, love his attitude. A really good buy after all the mistakes of the last decade. Isn't it interesting, players bought during Amorims short reign have done so well.

Heaven
The £1m, an absolute snip. Applause for whoever did that deal. I have long said Heaven looks a player to me. Yes, have to watch the same thing that happened to Garnacho doesn't happen to him. Carrick hasn't played him, a huge error for me, then in an emergency he comes in last night. 19 and looks every bit the part. Yes, it could go wrong, but looks like a young Rio to me. Can pass with that left foot and I saw he won every single aerial battle. Deserves to keep his place. Not even 20 until Sept. Someone who could become a very good player indeed, future of England level. Next couple of years will tell us, see how he develops but he has potential to be wow.

19 Apr 2026 11:27:56
Agree with all of that, Red Man.

19 Apr 2026 12:30:07
Only saw the hls, unfortunately, but happy to see Heaven get the start. Long been a believer in his ability. Hope he nails that spot. And here's hoping we get a run going and finish third, and not just target CL qualification.

19 Apr 2026 12:49:33
Absolutely, Red Man. Hearing Carrick talk of reintegrating Rashford utterly depresses me.
Bringing it back to the game: I feel we're in the inverse of Amorim now. Performance levels are dropping, but we're getting results. As I've harped on about enough here, those performance metrics are much better predictors of long term results. Unfortunately, too many are short termist and I am fearful that Carrick gets the full-time gig.

There are really good alternatives - Nagelsman, Hoeness, Iraola, (optimistically) Enrique - and I hope those in charge don't share the short termism.

The foundations are there now in multiple positions, and we're in a much better position now than we've been for years.

19 Apr 2026 14:06:53
Don't forget Mainoo, Red Man. Man of the match last night.

As part of Amorim's short reign, he wouldn't play him. 😂😂😂

19 Apr 2026 14:08:02
Can't disagree except to say that whatever one thinks of Mason Greenwood he does seem to have successfully resurrected both his career and his private life with the woman he allegedly abused.

19 Apr 2026 16:44:40
Newnameoldideas, how dare you suggest a person might actually regret doing something and try to make amends.

Seriously, if Greenwood really has changed, he should be applauded and held up as a role model for younger, impressionable kids.

19 Apr 2026 18:06:47
angel

Mainoo did ok, but whilst I know it suits your argument, he wasn't MOM, was he?

We couldn't control the game through midfield at all, so I am yet to be convinced that Amorim wasn't right about him. He plays a certain way, and Mainoo has talent, but I don't think he is a strong CM, more of a semi 10.

19 Apr 2026 18:35:53
He was MOM, and as one of his critics, it was a joy to finally watch him dictate a game. He still needs to cover more ground for me, but let's judge with a better team around him.

19 Apr 2026 18:43:39
The fans rating in the Beebs Sport site had Mainoo ranked second to Bruno. I've been critical of him lately, but he was excellent yesterday, as was Bruno. Kobe is able to turn in tight situations and find the simple pass, and when he plays well, he's like the oil that keeps the engine running.

Amorim was wrong about Mainoo, and he was wrong to play Bruno as a CM. Those 2 changes have had a huge impact on our play.

19 Apr 2026 18:34:48
A role model for how to batter your missus and get away with it? Or is this sarcasm?

19 Apr 2026 21:02:18
Bruno was the official MOM.

19 Apr 2026 21:25:41
He was Red Man. imo Mainoo was our best player by quite some distance. Heaven and Maz also were good. Dalot and Shaw did the defensive part of their job well, in the main.
As a team, I think we only had 1 shot on target or something like that. So imo any creative players from yesterday should not be getting a MOM.

19 Apr 2026 22:32:26
For the clean sheet, I would have given it to a defender. Heaven would have been mine.

18 Apr 2026 22:36:26
Massive shout out to that Garnacho performance tonight. He does love United deep down. 😂

19 Apr 2026 01:57:04
I really can't remember the last United player that left that I didn't want to do well. But he is the real exception for me.
I really do hope I change that view over time. I think I will. Maybe if he leaves Chelsea. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ended up at Villa next season.

19 Apr 2026 09:22:39
I think it's Spain or more likely Italy for Garnacho next season to get some playing time. No issue with self-belief/arrogance, as all the best need that streak in them. But he believes his own former hype and thinks he's Ronaldo. There's a decent player in there, but I'm not sad he's gone.

19 Apr 2026 10:24:30
Putting aside his attitude issues, I am surprised that he seems to have regressed physically.

He looks like he could do with a good meal, lol. I have not seen Dalot that comfortable defensively.

19 Apr 2026 10:40:27
He seems quite immature. He behaved childishly before he was sold. He has hinted he regrets it all now, but he's another player who believed his own hype. He's hugely talented but isn't delivering. It's a shame, but he's not the first to arrive in a blaze of glory and then fizzle out.

19 Apr 2026 10:49:04
All Dalot had to do was show him the inside, and Garnacho passed backwards, like he did for us for so long. He really isn't good enough to be a top-level player, and Chelsea, I think, know that.

19 Apr 2026 11:28:28
Garnacho has to take personal responsibility for his actions, but I really don't think he has a good support system. It seems his brother and others are more interested in self gain, rather than what's best for his career. It just goes to show that a level head and steady guidance are very important in modern football.

19 Apr 2026 14:26:27
AJH, the importance of surrounding yourself with good people in order to keep you grounded. He is a talented player, but talent only gets you so far.

Fortunately for us, we got a few quid for him. He's still young, though, and will have chances, but I'm not sure he is mature enough to take them.

19 Apr 2026 18:44:16
There's a chat on the Chelsea site asking if he is their worst signing ever.

19 Apr 2026 18:55:53
There is as long a list at Chelsea for crap signings as there is at United.

21 Apr 2026 01:52:47
Sancho. By far the worst signing for us and for Chelsea too. Never heard of a club before then paying us to send him back.

18 Apr 2026 09:59:50
Jesus, if rumours are true we are without Yoro now too for tonight. Maybe Heaven and Shaw, really struggling to find a good pairing?

18 Apr 2026 11:25:51
Not a rumour, he has not travelled to London.

18 Apr 2026 12:07:52
Shaw is the only viable option unless they call up Kukonki or another.

18 Apr 2026 14:37:20
What happened to Tyler Fredericson?

18 Apr 2026 15:19:37
Spenno, Kukonki played in F.A. Youth Cup semi final last night.

Dsg, Fredricson is injured, only recently made an attempted comeback from injury, and has now sustained a fresh one. He would definitely have been in the squad otherwise.

18 Apr 2026 16:30:57
The sensible thing to do would be to play Dalot at RB, Mazraoui and Heaven at CB, with Shaw at LB.

That way, Heaven has experienced players either side of him, and is playing on his stronger, left-hand side of the CB partnership.

If we move Shaw into CB, then one of either Shaw or Heaven has to play on the right-hand side of the partnership (which is not their natural side). While it means at LB we either have to play one of Dalot or Mazraoui there (which weakens our defence and attack on that side), or we have to throw Dorgu straight back into a high-stakes away game with a patched-up defence (although Carrick has said he is not ready, so we can probably rule that out).

Mazraoui is more than capable of playing at CB, is experienced, and tactically intelligent.

The concern with him is that he is good in the air for a fullback, but not particularly great for a CB. That said, other than Delap (who tends to be a sub for the last 10-15 minutes), Chelsea do not really have any particularly threatening players in the air.

Ideally, you do not want to make too many changes to your defence, as good defending requires consistency. We already are not going to have our first-choice CBs, and it makes absolutely no sense to ensure that we do not have our best fullbacks playing in their best positions as well.

Keep Dalot and Shaw in their best positions, then use Mazraoui and Heaven as the CBs. We'll have Casemiro playing in front of them, and he can defend the box aerially to a good standard if we need it.

18 Apr 2026 16:52:05
Agree, Shappy, although would not be against 3 at the back.

If we, at worst, draw the game, we remain 7 points ahead of Chelsea and in a pretty strong place to obtain Champions League.

Obviously, a win would extend the lead to 10 points and, clearly, we would be in a very, very strong position.



All that matters tonight is the result. Don't care about the performance.

Just don't lose the game.